1. There is no evidence that Jesus exists
2. The fact that you feel you have to speak for this hypothetical Jesus, that you’ve never met, means you are simply expressing views you interpreted from a collection of primitive stories that no one knows who wrote or altered. But we do know they were created in a very different time and place, and with an agenda that is irrelevant to us today. We can demonstrate this further, by pointing out to you, hundreds of instructions and views, in that same collection of primitive stories, that you simply refuse to follow yourself
3. This, then, being your own opinion…it is obviously misguided and irrational, as you don’t even know the first thing about me
4. And I view your opinion as irrelevant, as the only thing I know about you, is that you feel you need to speak for an unproven entity, and rely on interpretations of primitive stories, to try and hurt people you know nothing about
5. You want to be respected for your demonstration of hatred and bigotry, but I see your actions as immoral, hypocritical, irrelevant and insane.
6. If you actually wanted me to seriously consider your alternative point of view, whatever that is, you’ve just destroyed your credibility, and the credibility of the group you purport to represent.
7. So your expression of free/hate speech was ill-considered and ineffective. We are concerned for you though, and encourage you to seek the professional psychiatric help you so obviously need, and hope that you get well soon.
No better tool has been invented to justify hate.
Understanding original sin
The story about Adam, Eve and the serpent in the Bible’s book of Genesis is very important to Christians. This story, also known as “the fall of man” and “original sin,” is so important because it explains a great many things about Christianity and the Christian God.For example, the story of “original sin” explains why an omnipotent God allows so much suffering to occur on our planet. It also explains why Jesus needed to come to earth to be crucified. It explains why human childbirth is so painful. It explains why human nature can be, at times, so cruel and evil. It explains the sacrament of baptism. According to this page:
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[original sin is] The sin of Adam and Eve, the essential event of the Fall of Man. According to the most common teaching of Christians, all descendants of Adam and Eve — that is, all people — share in this sin and are, from the time they are conceived, in a state of sin. In German, the term used is Erbsunde, meaning “inherited sin,” a more explanatory term than the English one. Jesus, through his Crucifixion and Resurrection, atoned for original sin. All who believe in Jesus and accept baptism are freed from original sin and experience salvation.
The question that we will explore in this article is a simple one: is the Bible’s story of original sin valid? Does this story, whether it is literally true or not, have any importance to mankind? The goal is to help Christians to look at the story of original sin from a fresh perspective and analyze its meaning.
The Creation Story
“The fall of man” starts with the creation of man. Genesis 2:7 describes the actual creation process in this way:
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And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
After creating man, the Bible says that God moved man into the Garden of Eden:
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The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the Garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’
Here we are faced with an enigma — a talking snake. From a scientific standpoint this snake is impossible. There is no such thing as a talking snake. Snakes (and reptiles in general) have neither the physical structure nor the brain power to speak. There simply are not enough neurons in the reptile brain to process language.
Even in the context of the story, the talking snake is a bit hard to swallow. The story seems to be saying that God created not one but two sentient species — humans and serpents. Yet the Bible makes no mention of the serpent’s creation nor does God provide any warning to the serpent to stay away from the tree.
Let us ignore this as a quibble as well. Perhaps the serpent is God’s way of personifying Satan in the story.
After Adam and Eve disobey God and eat from the fruit of the tree, here is what happens:
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When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man, ‘Where are you?’
He answered, ‘I heard you in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.’
And he said, ‘Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I told you not to eat from?’ ”
- God is the all-knowing creator of everything. The questions he asks in this passage — why does God ask them? Since God is all-knowing, he already knows the answers. For example, something as simple as “Where are you?” is unnecessary for an all-knowing being. God knows EVERYTHING, so there is no need for him to ask any question of anyone. Let’s dismiss that with the thought that God is playing the role of the coy parent in this scene.
- If you take the “omniscient” train of thought a little further, you realize this: Since God is all-knowing, it means that at the moment that God put the tree into the garden, his omniscience would allow him to instantly know the entire course of human history. He could foresee every single person’s birth, life and death in full detail at that moment. If God did not like what he knew that Adam would do, then why did God set it up that way? And why would God be at all surprised by what happens?
- Most people also wonder about the tree. The tree is called “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” Therefore, Adam and Eve would not have any knowledge of good and evil until they ate from the tree. So how would they know the difference between right and wrong until they ate the fruit? In other words, they had to eat the fruit before they would know that it was wrong to eat the fruit. If someone doesn’t have any knowledge of right and wrong, how can the person commit a sin? And how can you punish the person for doing wrong?
- Most people also wonder about human nature. God created Adam, so God designed the placement of every cell in Adam’s body and brain. Therefore God knows all about human nature, and how Adam and Eve will think and react in every situation — God is the one who created human nature. Certainly God had an omniscient reason for creating human nature in the way that he did.
Programming Adam
When you read this story and really think about it, you realize that Adam and Eve are a very special case. Look at it this way. When normal people like you and me are born as babies, we know absolutely nothing. We have to learn about our native language, culture, rules, laws, history, etc. from our parents over the course of many years. Adam, on the other hand, is created from the dust of the earth. Like Frosty the snowman, Adam, “came to life one day.” The instant that he is created in the Bible, Adam is an adult who can speak and think.
This raises a number of questions about Adam’s state of mind:
- Where did Adam’s initial language come from? God must have pre-programmed that in.
- Where did Adam get his knowledge of how to eat, how to drink, how to bathe, how to walk, etc.? All of these skills normally come after several years of training. God must have pre-programmed them into Adam too.
- Where did Adam learn how to respond in conversation, how to be polite, how to interact with others, etc.? Normally a parent teaches all of these social skills as well. God must have pre-programmed them into Adam.
- How old is Adam? Did God pre-program Adam at the level of a 5-year-old? A 10-year-old? A teenager? A twenty-something? A middle-aged man? A senior citizen? The Bible does not say, but it is important. If God has pre-programmed Adam at the level of a five-year-old, or even a teenager, then it would be hard to get too mad at Adam for making a mistake. Five-year-olds and teens make mistakes constantly — that’s how they learn. On the other hand, if God has pre-programmed Adam at the level of a twenty-something, then Adam’s entire world view, attitude, moral code, political stances, attitudes toward women (see chapter 15) and so on have been pre-set by God. By age 25, most humans have been through 12 years of school plus college, they have dated a number of people and are married, etc., so they have stored a huge amount of information and experience in their brains. Albert Einstein at age 26 was married, had a child and had finished the theory of relativity. God could have programmed Adam with the same level on knowledge, understanding and experience that Einstein had at age 26. In that case Adam might have made different decisions, and humanity would have advanced technologically at a remarkable pace.
So why is God surprised in any way by the events that unfold in the garden, and why is there any need to punish mankind? Since God is the one who created and pre-programmed all of the actors, God made all of the decisions on what would happen in Eden. When God asks “Have you eaten from the tree that I told you not to eat from?”, why bother asking? God programmed it to happen. God can see the full swath of history — billions of years forward and backward down to the atomic level. That is what omniscience is all about. God created Adam and Eve, God pre-programmed Adam and Eve, so God knows exactly what Adam, Eve and the serpent will do together. Adam and Eve were doomed from the very beginning.
This is what makes the creation story and the notion of “original sin” seem so ridiculous to non-Christians. Adam did not “sin.” For one thing, Adam would have no way to know what a sin is until he ate the fruit. For another, Adam had no control whatsoever over what he did and therefore it was not a “sin” to act that way.
Responding to God
If Adam was smart, what he would say to God in response to a question like, “What are you doing?” is something like this:
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“Look, God, you tell me. You are the one who created me. You are the one who arranged the neurons in my brain. You are the one who created human nature. You are the one who pre-programmed me with my language, my knowledge of the world, my code of ethics and everything else. You are also the one who created and pre-programmed Eve, and you are the one who created and pre-programmed a talking serpent. You have absolute control over every single thing that is happening here. You are the one who can see billions of years into the past and the future. You tell me — what am I doing? Quite obviously, I am doing exactly what you designed and programmed me to do. How could I possibly do anything else?”
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“You know, Adam, you are right. I created you. I arranged every cell in your body and brain. I created human nature. And I pre-programmed you, just as you say. I know exactly how you think and what you will do in every situation. In addition, since I am all-knowing and beyond time, I can see exactly, nanosecond by nanosecond, how your life will proceed. I can see, in exact nanosecond detail, how the lives of the trillions of people who will follow you will unfold. I know everything. I understand everything. I am perfect. In creating you the way I did, I did so perfectly and with complete foreknowledge. I understand exactly why you ate from the tree. In fact, I already knew exactly what you would do when I planted the tree. I am glad that you now understand the difference between good and evil. Otherwise I would not have put the tree there. ”
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“I will greatly increase your pains in Childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.”
Adam is punished in a similar way — God convicts Adam and gives him the death sentence. Post-fruit, God says:
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“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you will return.”
It is hard to imagine the relationship with God getting any worse than this, but it does. Just three pages later, here is what God has to say about the human race:
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“The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the Earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The Lord was grieved that he had made man on earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth — men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air — for I am grieved that I have made them.’”
When you think about it like this, you cannot miss the huge problem with the Bible. The Bible is supposed to be the error-free product of a perfect, omniscient being. Everything you have been told since birth tells you that the Bible is the perfect word of God. However, your common sense tells you something far different. When you actually read the Bible, what you find is that it is ridiculous. None of this happened. None of it came from God. All of it is a fairy tale. The Bible, quite obviously, was written by primitive men rather than God. “Original sin” is completely meaningless because it is an ancient fable. With that realization you come to understand many other things as well, as discussed in detail in the book.
What I would ask you to do is simply think about the Bible and the creation story as a rational human being. Read the book to learn more.
The West Wing- Bible Lesson (start at the 1:00 mark)
I never watched this show, but this scene is one big, long money shot. Great to share with those that tout our so-called “judeo-christian” national principles.
Do not say, ‘I will do to him just as he has done to me; I will render according to the man according to his work.’
Proverb 24:29
(via atheistbiblestudy)I felt this proverb was incredibly relevant right now. It seems that many Americans prefer the ruthless, unforgiving verses in the Bible when it comes to the death penalty, so I just thought that this verse should be made known.
Atheist Bible Study: To add to the verse I just posted:
There are many many (too many for me to count) Biblical endorsements of the death penalty. These are literal endorsements. God told his people to kill as punishment. And this punishment was prescribed to things which we would never kill someone for nowadays (like working on the Sabbath). When we…
God’s Narcissism
So I just read the Ten Commandments for fun. As far as I can tell … nothing about rape or other heinous crimes besides murder. However, 40% of the rules appear to be dedicated to god’s vanity and jealousy. Most humans I know are less petty.
(via divineirony)
Abortion and the Bible-
Exodus 21:22-23
If an attack on a woman causes a miscarriage the attacker must pay a fine. If he causes serious damage to the mother it’s “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth”. This indicates that a fetus does not have equal standing under God’s law.
Leviticus 27:6
Monetary values are assigned to lives according to age and gender. Lives under one month old have no value.
Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28
A potion given to the Israelites by God is used to determine paternity. If the father is not the husband, an abortion occurs. god clearly places no value on a fetus that is not the result of union between husband and wife.
Genesis 38:24
God’s law states that if a woman is pregnant and is to be executed there is to be no waiting for the fetus to be born. It is counted as part of the mother and she burned to death with it still in her womb.Well, hey, would you look at that!
Oh my Maude this is the greatest thing. THE GREATEST THING. NEVER NOT REBLOG THIS.
(via divineirony)
Crazy Shit In The Bible: Hammer Tent Peg Into Head
Meanwhile, Sisera ran to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, because Heber’s family was on friendly terms with King Jabin of Hazor. Jael went out to meet Sisera and said to him, “Come into my tent, sir. Come in. Don’t be afraid.” So he went into her tent, and she covered him with a blanket. “Please give me some water,” he said. “I’m thirsty.” So she gave him some milk to drink and covered him again. “Stand at the door of the tent,” he told her. “If anybody comes and asks you if there is anyone here, say no.” But when Sisera fell asleep from exhaustion, Jael quietly crept up to him with a hammer and tent peg. Then she drove the tent peg through his temple and into the ground, and so he died. When Barak came looking for Sisera, Jael went out to meet him. She said, “Come, and I will show you the man you are looking for.” So he followed her into the tent and found Sisera lying there dead, with the tent peg through his temple. So on that day Israel saw God subdue Jabin, the Canaanite king. And from that time on Israel became stronger and stronger against King Jabin, until they finally destroyed him. (Judges 4:17-24 NLT)
Crazy Shit In The Bible: Fire Breathing Dragons
“Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord? “Can you put a rope in his nose Or pierce his jaw with a hook? “Will he make many supplications to you, Or will he speak to you soft words? “Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him for a servant forever? “Will you play with him as with a bird, Or will you bind him for your maidens? “Will the traders bargain over him? Will they divide him among the merchants? “Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears? “Lay your hand on him; Remember the battle; you will not do it again! “Behold, your expectation is false; Will you be laid low even at the sight of him? “No one is so fierce that he dares to arouse him; Who then is he that can stand before Me? “Who has given to Me that I should repay {him?} {Whatever} is under the whole heaven is Mine.
“I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, Or his mighty strength, or his orderly frame. “Who can strip off his outer armor? Who can come within his double mail? “Who can open the doors of his face? Around his teeth there is terror. “{His} strong scales are {his} pride, Shut up {as with} a tight seal. “One is so near to another That no air can come between them. “They are joined one to another; They clasp each other and cannot be separated. “His sneezes flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. “Out of his mouth go burning torches; Sparks of fire leap forth. “Out of his nostrils smoke goes forth As {from} a boiling pot and {burning} rushes. “His breath kindles coals, And a flame goes forth from his mouth. “In his neck lodges strength, And dismay leaps before him. “The folds of his flesh are joined together, Firm on him and immovable. “His heart is as hard as a stone, Even as hard as a lower millstone.
“When he raises himself up, the mighty fear; Because of the crashing they are bewildered. “The sword that reaches him cannot avail, Nor the spear, the dart or the javelin. “He regards iron as straw, Bronze as rotten wood. “The arrow cannot make him flee; Slingstones are turned into stubble for him. “Clubs are regarded as stubble; He laughs at the rattling of the javelin. “His underparts are {like} sharp potsherds; He spreads out {like} a threshing sledge on the mire. “He makes the depths boil like a pot; He makes the sea like a jar of ointment. “Behind him he makes a wake to shine; One would think the deep to be gray-haired. “Nothing on earth is like him, One made without fear. “He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride.” (Job 41:1-34 NAS)











