(Just) A few of history’s worst quotes from believers
Compiled by Jim Walker…the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt…
-The author of Exodus describing the actions of the killer God in Ex. 12:29
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
-Author of 1 Samuel describing God’s instructions (I Sam.15:2-3)
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
-Psalm 137:9 (KJV)
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-Paul [I Corinthians 11:8-9]
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
-Paul [I Corinthians 14:34-35]
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
-Paul (I Tim 2:12)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
-The alleged Jesus in Matthew 10:34
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
-The alleged Jesus in Luke 19:27
And I will kill her children with death…
-The alleged Jesus in Rev. 2:23 KJV
It is not permitted for a woman to speak in the church, nor is it permitted for her to teach, nor to baptize, nor to offer [the eucharist], nor to claim for herself a share in any masculine function— not to mention any priestly office.
-Tertullian, (160?-220? C.E.), Adversus Valentinianos
The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives on even in our times and so it is necessary that the guilt should live on, also. You are the one who opened the door to the Devil, you are the one who first plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree, you are the first who deserted the divine law; you are the one who persuaded him whom the Devil was not strong enough to attack. All too easily you destroyed the image of God, man. Because of your desert, that is, death, even the Son of God had to die.
-Tertullian, (160?-220? C.E.), The Apparel of Women
Bow your heads to your husbands—and that will be ornament enough for you. Keep your hands busy with spinning and stay at home—and you will be more pleasing than if you were adorned in gold. Dress yourselves in the silk of probity, the fine linen of holiness, and the purple of chastity. Decked out in this manner, you will have God Himself for your lover.
-Tertullian, (160?-220? C.E.), The Apparel of Women
For the preservation of chastity, an empty and rumbling stomach and fevered lungs are indispensable.
-St. Jerome (340?-420 C.E.)
Nothing is so much to be shunned as sex relations.
-St. Augustine (354 C.E.- 430 C.E.)
There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives us to ttry and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which man should not wish to learn.
-St. Augustine (354 C.E.- 430 C.E.)
And they who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell.
-Allah’s alleged words in the Quran, 5:10
The only reward of those, who wage war against ALLAH and HIS Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land, is that they be slain or crucified or their hands and feet be cut off on account of their enmity, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment.
-Allah’s alleged words in the Quran, 5:33
In front of such a one is Hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water.
-Allah’s alleged words in the Quran 14:16
Kill them all, God will recognize his own.
-Arnald-Amalric, 1208 (when asked by the Crusaders what to do with the citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars)
We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides.
-St. Ignatius Loyola (1500)
We come to conquer this land by his [King of Spain] command, that all may come to a knowledge of God and of His Holy Catholic Faith; and by reason of our good mission, God, the Creator of heaven and earth and of all things in them, permits this, in order that you may know Him and come out from the bestial and diabolical life that you lead…. Our Lord permitted that your pride should be brought low and that no Indian should be able to offend a Christian.
-Spanish conquistador, Francisco Pizarro to the Inca emperor Atahuallpa at Peru in 1532 (quoted from Jared Diamod’s “Guns, Germs, and Steel”)
If a man is in open rebellion, everyone is both his judge and his executioner… Therefore, let everyone who can, smite, slay, and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel. It is just as when one must kill a mad dog.
-Martin Luther (Against the Robbing and Murdering Hordes of Peasants, 1525)
Whoever wishes to be a Christian, let him pluck out the eyes of his reason.
-Martin Luther (First Psalm Lectures, Luther’s Works, Vol. 11, p.285)
Christ wants to slay reason and subdue the arrogance of the Jews…
-Martin Luther (Sermons on the Gospel of St. John, Luther’s Works, V.22, p.320)
Whoever wants to be a Christian must be intent on silencing the voice of reason.
-Martin Luther (Sermons on the Gospel of St. John, Luther’s Works, V.23, p. 99)
A woman has no control over herself.
-Martin Luther (Letter to Several Nuns, 6 Aug. 1524)
We are at fault in not slaying them [the Jews].
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and their lies, 1543)
For we must hold, that our mind never rises seriously to desire and aspire after the future, until it has learned to despise the present life. 2. For there is no medium between the two things: the earth must either be worthless in our estimation, or keep us enslaved by an intemperate love of it. Therefore, if we have any regard to eternity, we must carefully strive to disencumber ourselves of these fetters.
-John Calvin (Life of a Christian Man. Scriptural arguments exhorting to it)
Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the Holy Spirit?
-John Calvin, citing Psalm 93:1 in his Commentary on Genesis
To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.
-Cardinal Bellarmine (during the Inquisition of Galileo)
If the people will let us alone we will preach the gospel in peace. But if they come on to molest us, we will establish our religion by the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was “the Alcoran [Koran]
or the Sword.” So shall it eventually be with us.-Joseph Smith
The natural and proper timidity and delicacy which belongs to the female sex evidently unfits it for many of the occupations of civil life….The paramount destiny and mission of women are to fulfill the noble and benign office of wife and mother. This is the law of the Creator.
-Supreme Court, 1873, upholding an Illinois law which prohibited women from becoming attorneys
If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe it.
-William Jennings Bryan
You gotta save Christianity, Richard! You gotta!
-Loretta Young to King Richard (in the movie, The Crusades, 1935)
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..
-Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 2)
A man does not die for something which he himself does not believe in.
-Hitler (Mein Kampf, Chapter 3)
I can’t understand how all this can have happened, it’s enough to make one lose one’s faith in God!
-Eva Braun (during the last days with Hitler)
Why, of course the people don’t want war… but, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship… voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
-Hermann Goering, Nazi Commander, April 18, 1946 (Nuremberg Diary, by Gustave Gilbert)
We have discovered the most terrible bomb in the history of the world. It may be the fire destruction prophesied in the Euphrates Valley Era, after Noah and his fabulous Ark.
-Harry S. Truman, in his decision to use atomic bombs on Japan, using Biblical justification (Diary, July 25, 1945)
We, the Order of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, reverentially acknowledge the majesty and supremacy of Almighty God and recognise His goodness and providence through Jesus Christ our Lord.
-Ku Klux Klan creed (from the Constitution and Laws of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan )
Mussolini: a gift from providence.
-Pope Pius XI
This stranglehold has got to be broken or this country’s going down the drain.
-Rev. Billy Graham, in a 1972 conversation with Richard Nixon expressing his disdain for what he saw as Jewish domination of the media. (Nixon tapes)
A woman cannot be a priest because our Lord was a man.
-Pope Paul VI, 1977
The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.)
-Rev. Jerry Falwell (from his book Listen, America!)
The idea that religion and politics don’t mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-Rev. Jerry Falwell
I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won’t have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-Rev. Jerry Falwell (1979)
The Bible tells us that the unbelievers will go into endless punishment.
-D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
Christ, who came meek and mild to save us from pain and suffering, was the One who talked more about hell than any other person in Scripture.
-D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and sinful.
-D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
I believe this notion of the separation of church and state was the figment of some infidel’s imagination.
-Rev. W. A. Criswell (Dallas, 1984)
I don’t know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
-President George H. W. Bush (the First), during an August 27, 1987 interview by Rob Sherman
God has revealed to me that those doing battle for Allah and our country and meet death will immediately go to Heaven.
-The Ayatollah Khomeini (1984)
Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it. … Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory.
-Jimmy Swaggart (former pop preacher)
Sickness and disease will be a part of life of this planet until Jesus comes back.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
I know there are some Christians who believe that war and their participation in it are morally wrong. While I respect their views and must allow them to follow their consciences, I do not believe the Bible teaches pacifism.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Whenever the civil government forbids the practice of things that God has commanded us to do, or tells us to do things He has commanded us not to do, then we are on solid ground in disobeying the government and rebelling against it.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Those who are not Christians go to a place of suffering and torment called hell.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Government was instituted by God to bring His laws to people and to carry out His will and purposes.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
When any civil government steps outside the mandate authorized by God Almighty, then that government does not have any further claim over its citizens.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
I believe that he [Jesus] is Lord of the government, and the church, and business and education, and, hopefully, one day, Lord of the press. I see him involved in everything. And that’s why I don’t want to stay just in the church, as such. I want the church to move into the world.”
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
The Bible talks about everlasting fire and eternal darkness when it describes hell… We do know that hell is real and forever.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
The heart of man is “deceitful and desperately wicked.”
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Satan is a tool of God’s love in the sense that he forces us to see God’s loving patience.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
The imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
If you go all the way back to the days just following creation, men lived nine hundred years or more.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
He [Jesus] had the ability to walk through doors, to travel vast distances in an instant, and to ascent into heaven.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Therefore the spiritual standard for America would be the gospel of Jesus and everything in the Old and New Testaments.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
Fornication is sex between two unmarried people.
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
My personal feeling is that oral sex is “against nature.”
-Pat Robertson (Answers to 200 of Life’s most Probing Questions, Bantom Books, 1984)
There will never be world peace until God’s house and God’s people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy moneychangers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?
-Pat Robertson, (The New World Order, p. 227, Word Publishing, 1991)
The strategy against the American radical left should be the same as General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific … blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The battle to regain the soul of America won’t be pleasant, but we will win it.”
-Pat Robertson (from Pat Robertson’s Perspectives, April/May 1992)
Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.
-Pat Robertson
The key in terms of mental ability is chess. There’s never been a woman Grand Master chess player. Once you get one, then I’ll buy some of the feminism…”
-Pat Robertson [According to the Chess Federation of the U.S. there were already two women Grand Masters at that time, both from Georgia. Since Robertson’s gaffe, at least three more women became Grand Masters.]
Satan … is as dangerous as we allow him to be. His primary weapon is deceit, and he uses it to prevent Christians from exercising the authority that is truly theirs in this world.”
-Pat Robertson (The Secret Kingdom)
The inability or unwillingness to hate makes a person worthless. If we do not hate detestable things, the quality of our character is suspect. The Bible commands that we hate.
-H. A. (Buster) Dobbs, Editor of Firm Foundation magazine and Church of Christ preacher, from the June 1994 issue.
You say what’s going to happen on this earth when the Rapture occurs? You’ll be riding along in an automobile; you’ll be the driver, perhaps; you’re a Christian; there’ll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds, you and the other born-again Christians in that automobile will be instantly caught away, you’ll disappear, leaving behind your clothing and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find that the car is moving along without a driver, and suddenly somewhere crashes. Those saved people in the car have disappeared.
-Rev. Jerry Falwell (broadcast excerpt on National Public Radio cassette Ronald Reagan and the Prophecy of Armageddon by Joe Cuomo.)
Is he [the Antichrist] alive and here today? Probably. Because when he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ. Of course he’ll be Jewish. Of course he’ll pretend to be Christ. And if in fact the Lord is coming soon, and he’ll be an adult at the presentation of himself, he must be alive somewhere today.”
-Rev. Jerry Falwell at a conference in Kingsport, Tenn., 14 Jan. 1999
“Execute Murderers and Abortionists.”
-Bumper sticker on anti-abortionist John Burt’s car
I can’t help it when what I do inspires somebody to go off the deep end.
-John Burt, anti-abortionist
I talk to my only friend Jesus our “LORD”! I know “JESUS” understands my terrible desires and ect. I have tords little boys! And the main reason I murdered them little “BOYS”, is because our society is so “AGAINST” the fact of “CHILDREN-DOING-SEX” together or with anybody! I believe children should be “ABLE” to do sex! And I can “ARGUE” that all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court! “SEX” is a great “GIFT” that Jesus gave us all!!!!
-Freddy Goode, serial killer, in a letter to one of his lawyers [misspellings, his].
If religious feeling is put in opposition to social change, then it does become an opium, but if it is joined to the struggle for social change then it is a wonderful medicine.
-Fidel Castro (Meeting With Evangelicals, 1990)
A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.
-Ayatollah Khomeini, Tahrirolvasyleh, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990.
I want to be invisible … I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know it’s over until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know until election night.”
-Ralph Reed, Director of the Christian Coalition, from the Virginian Pilot and Ledger Star, 11/9/91.
I imagine every Christian would agree that we need to remove humanism from the public schools. There is only one way to accomplish this: Abolish the public schools.
-The Reverend Robert L. Thoburn
I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good … our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism…
-Randall Terry, Director of Operation Rescue, from The News Sentinel (Ft. Wayne, IN, 16 August, 1993.)
God is on our side, and Satan is on the side of the United States.
-Saddam Hussein
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners… But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me… Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever.
-Jeffrey Dahmer, convicted serial killer, in a statement to the court, Milwaukee, WI, February 17, 1992. (Note, “Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners” comes from 1 Timothy 1:15)
Suppose that you, a religious person, decide to rent out an apartment over your garage. Along comes a possible renter who seems to meet all of your requirements, except that he lets slip, in casual conversation, that he is a Satanist… . If you follow the law … then you must allow on your property activities that your religion forbids. You might even fear the hellfire… . As we have seen, the Supreme Court has made such a mess of the right to exercise one’s religion freely that there is little chance the claim for an exemption would succeed. So you would, in the name of nondiscrimination, be stuck with the Satanist.
-Stephen L. Carter (The Culture of Disbelief, pp. 136-137, 1993)
My children, Michael and Alex, are with our Heavenly Father now, and I know that they will never be hurt again. As a mom, that means more than words could ever say… My children deserve to have the best, and now they will… I have put my total faith in God, and he will take care of me.
-Susan Smith, who drowned her two children, in her confession letter, Nov. 1994
“…a noble practice which does honor to women.”
-Sheik Gad Al Haq Ali Gad Al Haq (explaining Mohammed’s law for removing part or all of a girl’s clitoris to reduce her sexual appetite)
We should do unto others as we would want them to do unto us. If I were an unborn fetus I would want others to use force to protect me, therefore using force against abortionists is justifiable homicide.
-Paul Hill, killer of abortionist doctor
We need to do more than win an election or win the House or win the presidency, my friends: we need to make this beloved country of ours God’s country once again.”
-Pat Buchanan at the Christian Coalition 1995 Road to Victory Conference, as reported in the October 1995 issue of Church and State.
Our goal must be simple. We must have a Christian nation built on God’s law, on the Ten Commandments. No apologies.
-Randall Terry
Both the Magisterium of the Church… . and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action. The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.
-Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994
God will not give Japan and Europe the honor of bringing down the United States. This honor God will bestow upon the Muslims.
-Louis Farrakhan, 1997
Before you call me crazy, these wheels will be seen all over America. You will look up one day and see them, and I don’t want you to be terrified. They’re your friends, black man.
-Louis Farrakhan who claims to have been brought to earth by a UFO
Screw the Buddhists and kill the Muslims.
-Henry Jordan, South Carolina board of education (when another board member said the displaying of the Ten Commandemtns in public schools might offend students of other religions)
“I am sorry for the people I killed and the people I hurt. The reason you don’t see any more tears is I have been forgiven by God.”
-Luke Woodham (the teenager who shot and killed two high school students and wounding seven, after his conviction on June 13th, 1998)
” I know that Jehovah will take care of all of them in the next life…”
“Please know that I love Leigh Ann, Matthew and Mychelle with all of my heart. If Jehovah is willing, I would like to see all of them again in the resurrection, to have a second chance.”
-Mark O. Barton, the Atlanta killer of 14 people (including his family), in a letter that explains his feelings for his murdered wife and children
I told all four [Congressional leaders] that there are going to be some times where we don’t agree with each other, but that’s OK. If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator.
-George W. Bush (the Second), in a news conference at the U.S. Capitol, from CNN news, 18 Dec. 2000
I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say “you helped this happen.”
-Jerry Falwell (13 Sep. 2001 on the Christian Broadcasting Network explaining who helped in the World Trade Center & Pentagon tragedy.)
This is America, God has sent one of the attacks by God and has attacked one of its best buildings. And this is America filled with fear from the north, south, east and west, thank God.
-Osama bin Laden, 7 Oct. 2001
It’s been a fabulous year for Laura and me.
-George W. Bush, December 2001, three months after the World Trade Center attacks.
My answer is bring ‘em on.
-George W. Bush, challenging militants attacking U.S. forces in Iraq, July 3, 2003
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
—George W. Bush, unwittingly telling the truth (Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004)I know what I’m doing when it comes to winning this war.
—George W. Bush, on the Iraq war (11 Aug. 2004)
(via divineirony)
1. There is no evidence that Jesus exists
2. The fact that you feel you have to speak for this hypothetical Jesus, that you’ve never met, means you are simply expressing views you interpreted from a collection of primitive stories that no one knows who wrote or altered. But we do know they were created in a very different time and place, and with an agenda that is irrelevant to us today. We can demonstrate this further, by pointing out to you, hundreds of instructions and views, in that same collection of primitive stories, that you simply refuse to follow yourself
3. This, then, being your own opinion…it is obviously misguided and irrational, as you don’t even know the first thing about me
4. And I view your opinion as irrelevant, as the only thing I know about you, is that you feel you need to speak for an unproven entity, and rely on interpretations of primitive stories, to try and hurt people you know nothing about
5. You want to be respected for your demonstration of hatred and bigotry, but I see your actions as immoral, hypocritical, irrelevant and insane.
6. If you actually wanted me to seriously consider your alternative point of view, whatever that is, you’ve just destroyed your credibility, and the credibility of the group you purport to represent.
7. So your expression of free/hate speech was ill-considered and ineffective. We are concerned for you though, and encourage you to seek the professional psychiatric help you so obviously need, and hope that you get well soon.
No better tool has been invented to justify hate.
Isn’t it weird?
I think sometimes Christians forget their religion originated in the MIDDLE EAST
That can’t be true. Jesus has light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes. I’ve seen pictures and stuff!
(via divineirony)
- Andrew Sullivan: I have never doubted the existence of God. Never. My acceptance of God’s existence--of a force beyond everything and the source of everything--goes so far back in my consciousness and memory that I can neither recall “finding” this faith nor being taught it. So when I am asked to justify this belief, as you reasonably do, I am at a loss. At this layer of faith, the first critical layer, the layer that includes all religious people and many who call themselves spiritual rather than religious, I can offer no justification as such. I have just never experienced the ordeal of consciousness without it. It is the air I have always breathed. I meet atheists and am as baffled at their lack of faith--at this level--as you are at my attachment to it. When people ask me how I came to choose this faith, I can only say it chose me. I have no ability to stop believing. Crises in my life--death of loved ones, diagnosis with a fatal illness, emotional loss--have never shaken this faith. In fact, they have all strengthened it. I know of no “proof” that could dissuade me of this, since no “proof” ever persuaded me of it.
- Sam Harris: You appear to see some strange, epistemological significance in the fact that you cannot remember when or how you acquired your faith. Surely the roots of many of your beliefs are similarly obscure. I don’t happen to remember when or how I came to believe that Pluto is a planet. Should I say that this belief “chose me”? What if, upon hearing that astronomers have changed their opinion about Pluto, I announced that “I have no ability to stop believing?. I know of no ‘proof’ that could dissuade me of [Pluto’s planethood], since no ‘proof’ ever persuaded me of it.”
Understanding original sin
The story about Adam, Eve and the serpent in the Bible’s book of Genesis is very important to Christians. This story, also known as “the fall of man” and “original sin,” is so important because it explains a great many things about Christianity and the Christian God.For example, the story of “original sin” explains why an omnipotent God allows so much suffering to occur on our planet. It also explains why Jesus needed to come to earth to be crucified. It explains why human childbirth is so painful. It explains why human nature can be, at times, so cruel and evil. It explains the sacrament of baptism. According to this page:
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[original sin is] The sin of Adam and Eve, the essential event of the Fall of Man. According to the most common teaching of Christians, all descendants of Adam and Eve — that is, all people — share in this sin and are, from the time they are conceived, in a state of sin. In German, the term used is Erbsunde, meaning “inherited sin,” a more explanatory term than the English one. Jesus, through his Crucifixion and Resurrection, atoned for original sin. All who believe in Jesus and accept baptism are freed from original sin and experience salvation.
The question that we will explore in this article is a simple one: is the Bible’s story of original sin valid? Does this story, whether it is literally true or not, have any importance to mankind? The goal is to help Christians to look at the story of original sin from a fresh perspective and analyze its meaning.
The Creation Story
“The fall of man” starts with the creation of man. Genesis 2:7 describes the actual creation process in this way:
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And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
After creating man, the Bible says that God moved man into the Garden of Eden:
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The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the Garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’
Here we are faced with an enigma — a talking snake. From a scientific standpoint this snake is impossible. There is no such thing as a talking snake. Snakes (and reptiles in general) have neither the physical structure nor the brain power to speak. There simply are not enough neurons in the reptile brain to process language.
Even in the context of the story, the talking snake is a bit hard to swallow. The story seems to be saying that God created not one but two sentient species — humans and serpents. Yet the Bible makes no mention of the serpent’s creation nor does God provide any warning to the serpent to stay away from the tree.
Let us ignore this as a quibble as well. Perhaps the serpent is God’s way of personifying Satan in the story.
After Adam and Eve disobey God and eat from the fruit of the tree, here is what happens:
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When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man, ‘Where are you?’
He answered, ‘I heard you in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.’
And he said, ‘Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I told you not to eat from?’ ”
- God is the all-knowing creator of everything. The questions he asks in this passage — why does God ask them? Since God is all-knowing, he already knows the answers. For example, something as simple as “Where are you?” is unnecessary for an all-knowing being. God knows EVERYTHING, so there is no need for him to ask any question of anyone. Let’s dismiss that with the thought that God is playing the role of the coy parent in this scene.
- If you take the “omniscient” train of thought a little further, you realize this: Since God is all-knowing, it means that at the moment that God put the tree into the garden, his omniscience would allow him to instantly know the entire course of human history. He could foresee every single person’s birth, life and death in full detail at that moment. If God did not like what he knew that Adam would do, then why did God set it up that way? And why would God be at all surprised by what happens?
- Most people also wonder about the tree. The tree is called “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” Therefore, Adam and Eve would not have any knowledge of good and evil until they ate from the tree. So how would they know the difference between right and wrong until they ate the fruit? In other words, they had to eat the fruit before they would know that it was wrong to eat the fruit. If someone doesn’t have any knowledge of right and wrong, how can the person commit a sin? And how can you punish the person for doing wrong?
- Most people also wonder about human nature. God created Adam, so God designed the placement of every cell in Adam’s body and brain. Therefore God knows all about human nature, and how Adam and Eve will think and react in every situation — God is the one who created human nature. Certainly God had an omniscient reason for creating human nature in the way that he did.
Programming Adam
When you read this story and really think about it, you realize that Adam and Eve are a very special case. Look at it this way. When normal people like you and me are born as babies, we know absolutely nothing. We have to learn about our native language, culture, rules, laws, history, etc. from our parents over the course of many years. Adam, on the other hand, is created from the dust of the earth. Like Frosty the snowman, Adam, “came to life one day.” The instant that he is created in the Bible, Adam is an adult who can speak and think.
This raises a number of questions about Adam’s state of mind:
- Where did Adam’s initial language come from? God must have pre-programmed that in.
- Where did Adam get his knowledge of how to eat, how to drink, how to bathe, how to walk, etc.? All of these skills normally come after several years of training. God must have pre-programmed them into Adam too.
- Where did Adam learn how to respond in conversation, how to be polite, how to interact with others, etc.? Normally a parent teaches all of these social skills as well. God must have pre-programmed them into Adam.
- How old is Adam? Did God pre-program Adam at the level of a 5-year-old? A 10-year-old? A teenager? A twenty-something? A middle-aged man? A senior citizen? The Bible does not say, but it is important. If God has pre-programmed Adam at the level of a five-year-old, or even a teenager, then it would be hard to get too mad at Adam for making a mistake. Five-year-olds and teens make mistakes constantly — that’s how they learn. On the other hand, if God has pre-programmed Adam at the level of a twenty-something, then Adam’s entire world view, attitude, moral code, political stances, attitudes toward women (see chapter 15) and so on have been pre-set by God. By age 25, most humans have been through 12 years of school plus college, they have dated a number of people and are married, etc., so they have stored a huge amount of information and experience in their brains. Albert Einstein at age 26 was married, had a child and had finished the theory of relativity. God could have programmed Adam with the same level on knowledge, understanding and experience that Einstein had at age 26. In that case Adam might have made different decisions, and humanity would have advanced technologically at a remarkable pace.
So why is God surprised in any way by the events that unfold in the garden, and why is there any need to punish mankind? Since God is the one who created and pre-programmed all of the actors, God made all of the decisions on what would happen in Eden. When God asks “Have you eaten from the tree that I told you not to eat from?”, why bother asking? God programmed it to happen. God can see the full swath of history — billions of years forward and backward down to the atomic level. That is what omniscience is all about. God created Adam and Eve, God pre-programmed Adam and Eve, so God knows exactly what Adam, Eve and the serpent will do together. Adam and Eve were doomed from the very beginning.
This is what makes the creation story and the notion of “original sin” seem so ridiculous to non-Christians. Adam did not “sin.” For one thing, Adam would have no way to know what a sin is until he ate the fruit. For another, Adam had no control whatsoever over what he did and therefore it was not a “sin” to act that way.
Responding to God
If Adam was smart, what he would say to God in response to a question like, “What are you doing?” is something like this:
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“Look, God, you tell me. You are the one who created me. You are the one who arranged the neurons in my brain. You are the one who created human nature. You are the one who pre-programmed me with my language, my knowledge of the world, my code of ethics and everything else. You are also the one who created and pre-programmed Eve, and you are the one who created and pre-programmed a talking serpent. You have absolute control over every single thing that is happening here. You are the one who can see billions of years into the past and the future. You tell me — what am I doing? Quite obviously, I am doing exactly what you designed and programmed me to do. How could I possibly do anything else?”
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“You know, Adam, you are right. I created you. I arranged every cell in your body and brain. I created human nature. And I pre-programmed you, just as you say. I know exactly how you think and what you will do in every situation. In addition, since I am all-knowing and beyond time, I can see exactly, nanosecond by nanosecond, how your life will proceed. I can see, in exact nanosecond detail, how the lives of the trillions of people who will follow you will unfold. I know everything. I understand everything. I am perfect. In creating you the way I did, I did so perfectly and with complete foreknowledge. I understand exactly why you ate from the tree. In fact, I already knew exactly what you would do when I planted the tree. I am glad that you now understand the difference between good and evil. Otherwise I would not have put the tree there. ”
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“I will greatly increase your pains in Childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.”
Adam is punished in a similar way — God convicts Adam and gives him the death sentence. Post-fruit, God says:
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“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you will return.”
It is hard to imagine the relationship with God getting any worse than this, but it does. Just three pages later, here is what God has to say about the human race:
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“The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the Earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The Lord was grieved that he had made man on earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the Lord said, ‘I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth — men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air — for I am grieved that I have made them.’”
When you think about it like this, you cannot miss the huge problem with the Bible. The Bible is supposed to be the error-free product of a perfect, omniscient being. Everything you have been told since birth tells you that the Bible is the perfect word of God. However, your common sense tells you something far different. When you actually read the Bible, what you find is that it is ridiculous. None of this happened. None of it came from God. All of it is a fairy tale. The Bible, quite obviously, was written by primitive men rather than God. “Original sin” is completely meaningless because it is an ancient fable. With that realization you come to understand many other things as well, as discussed in detail in the book.
What I would ask you to do is simply think about the Bible and the creation story as a rational human being. Read the book to learn more.
(via cocknbull)
30 Days: Christian / Atheist # 3
30 Days: An unscripted, documentary-style program (from Morgan Spurlock) where an individual is inserted into a lifestyle that is completely different from his or her upbringing, beliefs, religion or profession for 30 days.
In this documentary: an atheist mother living 30 Days with a Christian family. Enjoy It.
Part #3.
30 Days: Christian / Atheist # 2
30 Days: An unscripted, documentary-style program (from Morgan Spurlock) where an individual is inserted into a lifestyle that is completely different from his or her upbringing, beliefs, religion or profession for 30 days.
In this documentary: an atheist mother living 30 Days with a Christian family.
Enjoy It.
Part 2.
30 Days: Christian / Atheist # 1
30 Days: An unscripted, documentary-style program (from Morgan Spurlock) where an individual is inserted into a lifestyle that is completely different from his or her upbringing, beliefs, religion or profession for 30 days.
In this documentary: an atheist mother living 30 Days with a Christian family. Enjoy It.
Part #1.
The early Christian rules of life were not made to last, because the early Christians did not believe that the world itself was going to last.
(via cocknbull)
